Ozma + Hum

[death_from_above_1929]

Hey all, had a question:

Any Hum fans out there? Ozma lists em as a big influence. Thing is, Hum wrote all their songs on guitar in drop D tuning-- I'm wondering if Ozma ever tried that. Would the keyboard parts not work with that kind of heavier sound? Dunno, I mean most Ozma songs are tuned a half step down, and that sounds great. Hmm. Any theories?

Oh, and sorry if it seems like I'm trying to flaunt my musical expertise. Because there's not much of it.

-Andy

[brad]

That would have 0 effect on the keyboard player.

[death_from_above_1929]

i just meant, with drop D having a much darker sound than standard, ozma's upbeat keyboard melodies would probably sound really incongruous. i mean, the faint make it work because they go for a much more ominous sound. reggie and the full effect's latest is in the same vein. i may have answered my own question, but thanks for the reply man.

[Not Jason]

So far as I'm aware, there aren't any drop-d ozma songs, but I could be dead wrong about that.

I would like to point out, however, that it's a bit of a misconception to think that drop-d is always dark.  It is if you just use it for chunky riffing in d minor, but there is plenty of range you can get out of it.  My old band used to play a lot in drop-d, and often times, it resulted in our more upbeat songs.  Actually, in my current band, there are two cover songs we do in drop d, and both of them are decidedly upbeat:  "Stereo" by Pavement, and "Old Hat" by Harvey Danger.

[yoshigaki]

+ "Naked as We Came" by Iron & Wine.

[CT-700]

About 95% of all Minus the Bear songs are in Drop-D, and they are indubitably super-chill. Actually, the couple songs that they have that are in standard tuning are on the new album, and happen to be their darkest, dirtiest songs ('Dr. L'ling' or 'When We Escape' come to mind).

Drop-D only includes two semi-tones (half-steps) lower than standard. So an additional Eb and D aren't really going to change anything. Its just that the inclusion of the new low low D creates the interval of a perfect 5th with the A string (powerchord), and an octave with the high D. Thus, the possibility for fast changing and effortless powerchords, octaves, and suspended chords, which when used in a distorted and percussive manner, make the tuning useful for heavier music. But, it seems like Drop-D isn't cool enough for heavy bands anymore. All these lame, copycat, hipster, dime-a-dozen, scene-core bands use Drop-C#, C, B, etc.

And expanding upon Jason's Pavement reference, alot of their stuff in is CGDGBE, meaning that two of the low strings are even two semi-tones, or one full step, lower than Drop-D. Even though most of their earlier stuff is much more fuzzed-up and rock oriented, I still consider Pavement signature sound to be jangly, mellow, and semi-folky lo-fi music (just my opinion; I'm in no way putting down fuzzy, heavy classics like 'No Life Singed Her' or 'In the Mouth a Desert'). Malkmus used the low pitched strings in conjunction with the normal pitched strings to invent interesting chords, voicings, and drones that would not be possible in standard. Alot of the chords were just variations of standard chords, but with an added lower octave or harmony. Malkmus used other tunings though, too. 'Gold Soundz' is a mellow one in this tuning (and one of their biggest classics).

PS: I didn't mean this as an insult your music knowledge or anything. If you already knew these things, feel free to disregard. I was writing from an ambiguous standpoint, not knowing the extent of your musical knowledge, while still trying to be helpful, educational, and provide bands and real-life music examples that exemplify my statements. Hope I helped!

[Not Jason]

out of curiosity, do you know what tuning "stereo" is in?  We just learned it by ear, and the drop D seems to do the trick.

[CT-700]

That's a good question, Jason. I honestly didn't know, and a google search only yielded a couple of their other tunings, but nothing about 'Stereo'.

A random forum said that other tunings like DADF#BE, DADABE, CGDGBB, and even standard were used in conjunction with the afore mentioned CGDGBE throughout their career (I think standard was only used by Spiral, and rarely at that).

Judging from the 'Stereo' music video, it looks like in the chorus that everything is shifted two frets up from standard postion (the A and G chords played on the 7th and 5th frets, respectively), making it in one of the above D tunings. In the intro, it looks like Spiral plays the high pitched vibrato line with his middle finger on twelve fret of the G string. This vibrato is an A, therefore I think its safe to say 'Stereo' is played in the tuning DADABE. The weird harmonics in the pre-chorus ("hi-ho silver, ride") probably hold the true answer to the tuning, but from the evidence gathered above, I think its safe to say we busted it.

PS: death_from_above_1929, I feel the need to correct myself, I said 'Gold Soundz' was in the tuning of CGDGBE, but during the above research I found that it is really in DADABE, like 'Stereo'. Regardless, it still proves my point on low-tunings and mellow sounds.

[pygmy twylyte]

hum is one of my favorite bands ever.  i dont really think they influenced ozmas sound, the guys from ozma just really like them.  jose once mentioned that youd prefer an astronaut was one of his favorite albums.  i would imagine that there are a few other mid-90s bands that are like hum with ozma.  again, didnt really influence their sound, just were bands from the time period that the ozma dudes liked when young.

i think i may have more trouble finding people who like hum than people who like ozma.  ozma at least was linked to weezer and got some internet exposure.  hum tends to kind of get lost in obscurity.  how i pray for another reunion show.

edit: and oh yeah...drop-D...kind of the point of the thread.  i dont think drop-D necessarily leads to a darker sound, but the way hum uses it does.  they like to use the low-D power chord.  also, please prepare yourself for a bad explanation - they use a lot of power chords with root notes on the A string, but with another note played below it on the D string.  so say theyre playing a C power chord, theyll add the note on the 3rd fret of the low-D string, which in drop D is an F.  so there are two Cs and two Fs in this chord.
i hope that made sense.  matt talbot also likes to extend those chords and play something on all six strings.  it sounds rich on the lower end, but kind of clangy on the high end.  he does this a lot when he uses clean tone.  see the i hate it too intro(dear god that is the best song ever wrtten).

as far as ozma is concerned in relation to this, doing these types of things would not fit their sound at all.

[The Other Mike]

well that would be a slash chord (C/F in this case) but you're wrong about there being two F's in the chord. A normal C power chord consists of a C and a G.

[Not Jason]

well that would be a slash chord (C/F in this case) but you're wrong about there being two F's in the chord. A normal C power chord consists of a C and a G.

and the full C major chord would also have an E as the third, but no F. 

[CT-700]

If anyone is interested:

I talked to a Pavement buff recently and mentioned tunings, and he happened to say that CGDGBE is used almost exclusively on Slanted, and then DADABE is essentially the standard Pavement tuning from Crooked Rain on (it is however also used here and there on Slanted; ex: "Summer Babe").

[pygmy twylyte]

well that would be a slash chord (C/F in this case) but you're wrong about there being two F's in the chord. A normal C power chord consists of a C and a G.

most bands use 3-note power chords.  in this case the C power chord would contain 2 Cs.

[The Other Mike]

You don't have to count every string you're pushing down. Multiples of the same note don't change the chord, just the tonal color of it (I'm rusty on my terms, so if that's not right I think you probably know what I mean). An open G chord has the notes G, B, and D in it. You wouldn't say that it has 3 G's 2 B's and a D in it.

[pygmy twylyte]

this thread has turned into way too much of a few dudes who dont know much about music trying to sound like they do.  all i was trying to say is that hum uses a lot of those chords.

you were right though about that chord not having 2 Fs.  not sure where i got that idea.

[The Other Mike]

this thread has turned into way too much of a few dudes who dont know much about music trying to sound like they do. 

That's a pretty bold statement considering that no one but you has made any incorrect statements regarding music theory. I'm not exactly a master of music theory (and what I posted in here was pretty basic stuff, and not the limits of what I know), but some of the other dude's posting here are pretty fucking smart.

[icecreamman]

This might be a little off topic, but how about the drum producing on the albums.  They get such a crisp sound out of the drums, along with some pretty phat beats.